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What Were They Thinking?
by John Siegenthaler, P.E.
August 8, 2007

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Here is an extremely messed-up installation for you to ponder. Photo courtesy of Harvey Youker – HYTech
Heating
Photo courtesy of Harvey Youker – HYTech Heating


The Glitch

Overview: Here’s an extremely messed up installation for you to ponder. This is what greeted my good friend and ace hydronics troubleshooter Harvey Youker when he responded to an S.O.S. call from a do-it-yourselfer last winter.
For some reason this installation was not delivering the unsurpassed comfort promised by the folks who sold our DIYer the hardware.  
Exercise: See if you can spot at least 10 errors.


The Fix

Where do we start on this one? It’s a poster child for why homeowners shouldn’t be installing their own heating systems. Here’s a list of 10 details I consider poor or unacceptable:  
1. The expansion tank is mounted using a sling of electrical cable — Could this be for seismic reasons?
2. The plateless staple-up tubing installation — What was he thinking???  
3. No insulation on underside of “radiant floor panel.”  
4. Use of galvanized fittings for circulator header — For all we know, there may be automotive antifreeze in this system.  
5. Mounting angle of circulators — I have no clue about the compound angles used.  
6. Size and type of tubing connected to “boiler” — ¾-inch PEX  
7. Use of instantaneous water heater as “boiler” — This device has a high pressure drop. Notice that all zone circulators are piped to the “header” that comes out of “boiler” and passes through air purger. Wow! He did manage to pump away from the expansion tank.  
8. Unsupported tubing everywhere — Perhaps this is used for hanging wet laundry.  
9. Pressure relief valve mounted vertically and pointing straight out at left side of “boiler” — Given the riser off the tee, this is probably a P&T relief valve with a rated operating pressure well beyond that of other components.  
10. Thermostat cables in very close proximity to vent connector.  
Perhaps you can find even more errors.   
The only “fix” for this calamity is to hire a hydronics professional who will disassemble just about everything and start over. Darn. There goes the savings the owner anticipated from doing it himself.


John Siegenthaler, P.E.
john@hydronicpros.com
John Siegenthaler, P.E., is principal of Appropriate Designs, a consulting engineering firm in Holland Patent, N.Y., and author of the text “Modern Hydronic Heating.” Visit www.hydronicpros.com for information on new software for hydronic system design and documentation. John is also the contributing editor to PM's monthly "The Glitch & The Fix" column, which offers hydronic troubleshooting solutions in conjuction with the magazine's twice-monthly Radiant & Hydronics eNews newsletter. You can reach John by e-mail at john@hydronicpros.com.

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  Comments (3)Post a Comment
Title: "What were they thinking"


I would love to know the "professional" RFH distributor this guy bought his package from! Therein is the first "problem" with this job!


Title: Reply to DIY hydronic install mess up


Thank you for the opportunity to reply. I do not praise nor condemn the installation noted in this article. I do not have all facts and circumstances. And I do not have a white paper studying DIY systems. I would love to see a formal study with statistical analysis and summary.

I will comment on belittling all DIY systems installers – my perception from the article. I have seen some DIY system(s) that far exceeds any system a “plumber turned hydronic professional specialist” would ever install. Or for that matter systems from a hydronic pro.

I personally observed the broken commandment; do not install the expansion tank on the outlet of a pump situation. I nearly passed out. Four hydronic heating specialist (plumbers turned heating pro) had not noted the screw up. (But they charged hamsensly for the service calls.) The install went down hill from there, including no means within the system to assure that return water was at a non condensing temp – to avoid condensing in an the non condensing boiler.

I personally feel that there are far more screw ups from “plumbers turned heating pro” installs than from mess ups from DIY – a shot from the hip perception.

Chuck Crandell


Title: wow


home depot lowes allens they sell pipe dreams and give out cost off parts wich make repairing with ur price competitve with thes home improvemant super stores


 

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